That's Just Not Right! > Left Vs. Right

The Gunslinger

Mar 12 2009, 10:17 PM

We have some pretty good debates around here and there is a clear yet friendly divide between TJNR, at least the American portion of it. Now, we all know that the majority of the United States leans to the Left (based on that election in November

) I am just wondering what the ratio is going to be on here.

my guess

80% Right
20% Left.

What do you guys think the results are gonna be?

If you wanna tell us your views on the subject go for it.

I'm a Democrat. Most of you know that.

To clear up what I mean, I am pretty much looking along the lines of who you voted for. If you voted Independent then by all means choose that but if you voted for Obama you should pick Left and If you went for MacDaddy McCain you go right.

Although if you always vote republican but just loved the twinkle in B-Rocks eye I think it is ok if you pick Right.

Ad Astra

Mar 12 2009, 10:40 PM

OMG TWINZ!!!!!11

Michael

Mar 12 2009, 10:44 PM

To make this simple, since this is TJNR, are you asking:
- how people voted
- how they feel on the majority of issues
- or just how they self-identify (which may have no bearing on what they believe/how they act)?

Edit: I ask because I think a lot of people will identify themselves as independents just because they don't agree completely with either party... or think both parties are too extreme... or they just think independent is a romantic word (like maverick).

SillySimon

Mar 12 2009, 11:35 PM

I think the majority is going to go "Independent -pointless", despite the fact
that the majority was pro-Obama in a previous TJNR poll.

That poll was really just a popularity contest. Nobody likes Bush, and nobody
wanted "more of the same" aka McLame.

And practically everybody likes Obama.

Hell, I like him.
...and I'd definitely have a beer with him. But after 3 or 4, I'd
definitely have to tell him to stop spending my children's money.

I checked the box for "Right - Republican", even though I can hardly be
considered a true Republican. I don't even agree with conservatives on
most social issues. But, as a businessman, I can't help but side with the
"right" on fiscal issues.

At the end of the day, my goal is to support my family by whatever means
necessary, with as little intervention as possible.

The Gunslinger

Mar 12 2009, 11:49 PM

I'm looking for more of the who did you vote for. I wasn't even sure if I should have included the independent option for all the reasons that have come up.

UncleMao

Mar 12 2009, 11:57 PM

I voted for mash potatoes instead of chips.

The Colonel

Mar 12 2009, 11:57 PM

I'm registered independent so that's what I checked.

Asking who people voted for his pointless, isn't it?

The Gunslinger

Mar 13 2009, 12:02 AM

QUOTE(The Colonel @ Mar 13 2009, 12:57 AM)

I'm registered independent so that's what I checked.

Asking who people voted for his pointless, isn't it?

Yeah of course it is. So is asking them what kind of music they like, what movies they enjoy, if they like boobs or asses better, etc, etc.

If the discussion is pointless to you, you can always ...

Not post in the thread

KVL

Mar 13 2009, 02:38 AM

I was expecting the words "Go fuck yourself" in that black box.

bringthedoo

Mar 13 2009, 07:33 AM

Not voting until you put Libertarian up there

aez

Mar 13 2009, 08:43 AM

QUOTE(The Gunslinger @ Mar 12 2009, 11:17 PM)

80% Right
20% Left.

That's funny, I'd guess the opposite.

Strange how people often think they're the minority.

rick

Mar 13 2009, 08:51 AM

QUOTE(aezrael @ Mar 13 2009, 10:43 AM)

Strange how people often think they're the minority.

Everybody likes an underdog!

(and apparently everyone likes to think they are one too?)

Edit: I read "independent" as more the option for the individual whose presidential voting record might look something like this:

Obama, Kerry, Bush, Clinton, Dukakis, Reagan, etc.

Voting for the person / the moment, rather than the party. I equate party loyalty to cultism.

shirizaki

Mar 13 2009, 09:01 AM

I can use both hands. Though right handed is dependable and never fails, left is usually a different feeling since I don't use it as much.

aez

Mar 13 2009, 09:01 AM

QUOTE(rick @ Mar 13 2009, 09:51 AM)

Voting for the person / the moment, rather than the party. I equate party loyalty to cultism.

If it's unfounded, sure.

But when your ideals line up 75%+ with those of a political party, loyalty is automatic.

rick

Mar 13 2009, 09:21 AM

I'd argue there are some black people who's "political ideology" may have lined up 75%+ with Reagan in 1984, but if Obama were the opponent rather than Mondale... (and I don't mean early 20's Obama).

Hell, I'd argue there are some Republicans whose ideals lined up 75%+ with the republicans who, regardless, knew after 8 years of Bush it was time for a change, and McCain wasn't really it. Meh.

(If I had a vote in November, it would've been for McCain ... if I had a vote in 2004, it would've been for Kerry).

The Colonel

Mar 13 2009, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(The Gunslinger @ Mar 13 2009, 01:02 AM)

QUOTE(The Colonel @ Mar 13 2009, 12:57 AM)

I'm registered independent so that's what I checked.

Asking who people voted for his pointless, isn't it?

Yeah of course it is. So is asking them what kind of music they like, what movies they enjoy, if they like boobs or asses better, etc, etc.

If the discussion is pointless to you, you can always ...

Not post in the thread

I guess I didn't make my question clear enough with my qualifying statement. If you're trying to figure out which way people lean, asking them who they voted for in this past election is pointless. You'd get a better idea by asking them what party they're registered for, or which party they typically support.

Then again, I see you've amended the original post to reflect what I originally meant so I guess you eventually figured it out

nun

Mar 13 2009, 10:03 AM

80% right?

There's that liberal victimization at work. Although I may be corrected in that there exists a "silent majority", but I can tell you I often felt alone in the wilderness here. (At least until Simon came along

) It doesn't stop me one whit, though.

Once more into the breach!

shirizaki

Mar 13 2009, 10:09 AM

QUOTE(aezrael @ Mar 13 2009, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE(rick @ Mar 13 2009, 09:51 AM)

Voting for the person / the moment, rather than the party. I equate party loyalty to cultism.

If it's unfounded, sure.

But when your ideals line up 75%+ with those of a political party, loyalty is automatic.

There's a difference between "loyalty" and "I vote with them often".

I would say 100% would be loyalty. but if you don't agree with everything that's said, you just attend.

And the ideals of a party, which is made up of a ton of people with widespread beliefs, would be so generic it would be like saying "I like pudding" and making a nation, national anthem, and arming that nation's military with your favorite foodstuff as weaponry. I mean there's butterscotch, dark chocolate, vanilla, banana pudding, and others. Not to mention the pies that are made with pudding.

You can love pudding, but hate pies. You'd be a funny fucker, but you wouldn't be swallowing the entire pudding offerings made by the pudding party.

But that's OK. Seriously, you don't have to like the pies they offer. Some of them are fruity and suck.

Ragnarok

Mar 13 2009, 12:28 PM

None of the above.

Dean

Mar 13 2009, 01:11 PM

QUOTE(sillysimon @ Mar 12 2009, 09:35 PM)

I checked the box for "Right - Republican", even though I can hardly be
considered a true Republican. I don't even agree with conservatives on
most social issues. But, as a businessman, I can't help but side with the
"right" on fiscal issues.

If you had voted anything other than Republican (and admitted it) you would have immediately killed this thread and rendered the poll completely pointless.

Artemis Entreri

Mar 13 2009, 01:17 PM

Foreign Policy- We should talk with everyone and handle things on a global scale.
Gun Control -We should encourage responsibility with stiff penalties for crimes committed with guns and hold gun owners responsible for their guns, mandatory registration of guns, but not limit the types of guns.
Budget & Economy -These are difficult times and we need to get money back into the hands of those that spend it. We need higher wages and need to give all that paid taxes a stimulus check that is NOT related as to how much they paid. Basically everyone gets the same check. Stop bailing out everyone, but spend money on infrastructure programs (roads, bridges, schools, communication, transportation, clean energy, etc.).
Education -We need to fund education for anyone who wants to go in this country. Stop paying for foreigners to come to school here with out tax dollars, our people should come first.
Homeland Security -Restrict access to vital infrastructure. Restrict access to stuff that can be made into a mass weapons such as bombs, chemical weapons, and poisons.
Crime -Crimes have victims and those who victimize other people should be punished. Drugs and prostitution are not crimes; they should be new heavily taxed industries to pay for education and health care.
Government Reform -End the programs that help the wealthiest and try to help everyone through free education and health care. End the two party system, and vote for issues not some career politician. End campigning as we know it and get all the ideas and candidates out there.
Health Care -We should have nationalized health care for all with choice of professionals. This would take a burden off American businesses. Also mandatory annual visits and a clean bill of health. Possible elimination of STD's throughout country if we possible quarantine the infected.
War & Peace -Stop policing the world; that is what the UN is for. End the war on Terror, warn them the next time we are attacked we will annihilate the entire populous of the offending country if the terrorists are not brought to justice. Same policy for Israel and the Palestinian Providences.
Drugs -Legalize, regulate, and sell heavily taxed drugs. Stop putting 80% of the people in prison there for trying to make money on what we are to stupid to.
Tax Reform -End graduated income tax system and have a flat tax of 15-20%. End all deductions, credits, exemptions, or anything that would reduce to below the tax rate. Send everyone the same stimulus check every month that paid with the surplus to gauge the economy's strength.
Abortion -Choice unless the mother has shown utter disregard for how she is going to support her children with two prior children. The third should either be put up for adoption or aborted based on the choices of all involved. Regardless her reproductive ability should be suppressed or possibly eliminated.
Free Trade -End free trade with countries that tax our goods more in their countries. Reform regarding quality and safety issues on both ends.
Civil Rights -People should not be discriminated or limited by any means. They also should not receive special treatment for quota purposes. The best suited person should get the job regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, handicap, or political/religious beliefs.
Social Security -Government controlled fund inaccessible for any other means.
Families & Children -If the mother has shown utter disregard for how she is going to support her children with two prior children. The third should either be put up for adoption or aborted based on the choices of all involved. Regardless her reproductive ability should be suppressed or possibly eliminated. You should have to be able to support the family you have created.
Immigration -Immigrants must apply through standard means. Illegal immigration must be stopped at all costs. Guard towers along the borders with armed guards, shooting to kill. A loudspeaker announces for all to hear, "The man in the tower is shooting to kill. He is a good shot. Do not attempt to cross on pain of death." It says this in English, Spanish, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Spanish…
Jobs -Give bonuses to companies that create jobs here and penalize those using foreign banking, labor, or materials reasonably accessible in the US.
Welfare & Poverty -Have some sort of training/education program to get people out of work jobs. Possibly a limited supply of money per/month that is a subsidized loan. Also, see Families & Children and Tax Reform.
Corporations -End the free lunch and handouts for corporations. Give them possible bonuses for employing Americans.
Energy & Oil -Promote clean energy, fuel efficiency, and new innovation. Penalize for price gouging, supply fixing, extravagant demand speculation.
Environment -Fine companies that damage the environment to get the money to it clean up. Known irreparable damage being proved should result in the death of those who were knowingly responsible.
Technology -Support the growth of technology with education and infrastructure programs. Increase public access to technology.
Principles & Values -Equality, justice, responsibility, strong at home, respected abroad, against the legislation of morality.

I voted Democratic because of the two party system. I know nobody is going to have exactly my views, but I must vote AGAINST those who have views that are harmful to me. Since there are only two parties and I can't stomach the rich getting any richer I must vote against the Republicans, thus for the Democrats.

bringthedoo

Mar 13 2009, 01:25 PM

QUOTE(Artemis Entreri @ Mar 13 2009, 02:17 PM)

I voted Democratic

Yeah that's all you really had to say. That or "I got beat up by the rich kid in my high school"

Artemis Entreri

Mar 13 2009, 01:30 PM

QUOTE(bringthedoo @ Mar 13 2009, 01:25 PM)

QUOTE(Artemis Entreri @ Mar 13 2009, 02:17 PM)

I voted Democratic

Yeah that's all you really had to say. That or "I got beat up by the rich kid in my high school"

I've never been beat up by anybody.

I'm sick of the rich taking everything and crying when their stock market falls.

QUOTE
The Clansman

Wake alone in the hills
With the wind in your face
It feels good to be proud
And be free and a race
That is part of a clan
And to live on highlands
And the air that you breathe
So pure and so clean

When alone on the hills
With the wind in your hair
With a longing to feel
Just to be free

It is right to believe
In the need to be free
It's a time when you die
And without asking why
Can't you see what they do
They are grinding us down
They are taking our land
That belongs to the clans

Not alone with a dream
Just a want to be free
With a need to belong
I am a clansman...

Freedom [x4]

It's a time wrough with fear
It's a land wrough with change
Ancestors could hear
What is happening now
They would turn in their graves
They would all be ashamed
That the land of the free
Has been written in chains

And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman

And I swear to defend
And we'll fight to the end
And I swear that I'll never
Be taken alive
And I know that we'll stand
And we'll fight for our land
And I swear that my bairns
Will be born free

And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman...

Freedom [x4]

[x2]
No, no we can't let them take anymore
No we can't let them take anymore
We've the land of the free

No, no we can't let them take anymore
No we can't let them take anymore
No we can't let them take anymore
We've the land of the free

Oh, oh-oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oh
Oh, oh-oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oh
Oh, oh-oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oh

Freedom [x4]

It is right to believe
In the need to be free
It's a time when you die
And without asking why
Can't you see what they do
They are grinding us down
They are taking our land
That belongs to the clans

Not alone with a dream
Just a want to be free
With a need to belong
I am a clansman...

And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman...

Freedom [x4]

And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman...

Steampunk

Mar 13 2009, 06:08 PM

Whig.

nun

Mar 13 2009, 06:19 PM

Artemis' checklist reminded me about my own current personal path from right-wing bigot/xenophobe to an enlightened progressive with the help of Hugh Topian.

QUOTE

Here is a short test to measure your transition from racist, hate filled, money obsessed, greedy conservative pig, to enlightened, happy, tolerant progressive. Be sure to write you answers down so you can calculate your progress in your personal transition.

Take it as many times as you like and measure your improvement. Remember, transition begins with first letting go, then embracing the new you.

Welcome to a Progressive World! Ta!

1) President Barack Hussein Obama is;

a. The president of the United States.
b. The man who will heal the nation.
c. The man who inspires hope and rebuilds America’s reputation around the world.
d. Why do you have to use the name Hussein?

2) The current economic situation is created by;

a. George Bush’s greedy campaign contributors.
b. Political correctness and Democrats pandering for votes.
c. Bullying Banks into making risky loans to unqualified individuals.
d. Capitalism.

3) What time should you show up for work?;
a. At least 5 to 10 minutes early.
b. Exactly on time.
c. As close to a designated time as possible depending on how your day goes.
d. Why should I bust my a$$ in order to make some rich pig richer?

4) How much of their income should "rich" people pay in taxes?;
a. As much as anybody else.
b. A little more because you make a little more.
c. At least 50% because we have to be ready to pitch in and do our part.
d. 100% people shouldn’t be allowed to be rich because it’s selfish.

5) The Worst President in History was/is?;
a. George W Bush
b. Dick Cheney
c. George W Bush, Dick Cheney and Halliburton
d. Jimmy Carter

6) What comes to mind when you hear the name “Ted Kennedy"?;
a. The Liberal Lion of the Senate.
b. The leader of a historic political American family.
c. A drunken pompous ass that conspired with known communist and allowed a woman to drown in the back of his car.
d. A conservative.

7) The best way to defeat terrorism and extremist is to;
a. Fight it with all our might.
b. Talk to them and try to get them to understand us.
c. Try to understand them.
d. Leave them alone and they’ll go away.

8) Man made Global Warming is…;
a. A farce and a scam.
b. A serious crisis.
c. The result of oppression, racism and capitalism.
d. Going to kill us all.

9) The lesson we learned from Katrina is;
a. This is what happens when a cat 5 Hurricane hits a city that sits below sea level.
b. A populace conditioned to be dependant on Government is in jeopardy during a national disaster.
c. Government moves slowly.
d. George W Bush hates black people.

10) We invaded Iraq because;
a. George Bush wanted to get revenge for the attack on his father.
b. Oil for Bushes cronies.
c. No bid contracts for Cheney’s Halliburton
d. All of the above.

Answers:
1) D 2) D 3) D 4) D 5) C 6) A 7) D 8) D 9) D 10) D

Grades:
0-2: Still a hateful racist.
3-5: Showing hope but still lacking tolerance.
6-8: Moving toward enlightenment.
8-9: Close but room for personal growth.
All 10: You’ve made it, get some tiny glasses, a turtleneck sweater and begin to brood because the world is just so unfair.

I also listen to the various audio self-help tips listed on the left-hand side of his website at least once a day.

Artemis Entreri

Mar 13 2009, 06:44 PM

I don't see anyone else posting how they feel about any issues so I took these ones from here and filled in my own opinions.

The Gunslinger

Mar 13 2009, 07:30 PM

QUOTE(nun @ Mar 13 2009, 07:19 PM)

Artemis' checklist reminded me about my own current personal path from right-wing bigot/xenophobe to an enlightened progressive with the help of Hugh Topian.

QUOTE

Here is a short test to measure your transition from racist, hate filled, money obsessed, greedy conservative pig, to enlightened, happy, tolerant progressive. Be sure to write you answers down so you can calculate your progress in your personal transition.

Take it as many times as you like and measure your improvement. Remember, transition begins with first letting go, then embracing the new you.

Welcome to a Progressive World! Ta!

1) President Barack Hussein Obama is;

a. The president of the United States.
b. The man who will heal the nation.
c. The man who inspires hope and rebuilds America’s reputation around the world.
d. Why do you have to use the name Hussein?

2) The current economic situation is created by;

a. George Bush’s greedy campaign contributors.
b. Political correctness and Democrats pandering for votes.
c. Bullying Banks into making risky loans to unqualified individuals.
d. Capitalism.

3) What time should you show up for work?;
a. At least 5 to 10 minutes early.
b. Exactly on time.
c. As close to a designated time as possible depending on how your day goes.
d. Why should I bust my a$$ in order to make some rich pig richer?

4) How much of their income should "rich" people pay in taxes?;
a. As much as anybody else.
b. A little more because you make a little more.
c. At least 50% because we have to be ready to pitch in and do our part.
d. 100% people shouldn’t be allowed to be rich because it’s selfish.

5) The Worst President in History was/is?;
a. George W Bush
b. Dick Cheney
c. George W Bush, Dick Cheney and Halliburton
d. Jimmy Carter

6) What comes to mind when you hear the name “Ted Kennedy"?;
a. The Liberal Lion of the Senate.
b. The leader of a historic political American family.
c. A drunken pompous ass that conspired with known communist and allowed a woman to drown in the back of his car.
d. A conservative.

7) The best way to defeat terrorism and extremist is to;
a. Fight it with all our might.
b. Talk to them and try to get them to understand us.
c. Try to understand them.
d. Leave them alone and they’ll go away.

8) Man made Global Warming is…;
a. A farce and a scam.
b. A serious crisis.
c. The result of oppression, racism and capitalism.
d. Going to kill us all.

9) The lesson we learned from Katrina is;
a. This is what happens when a cat 5 Hurricane hits a city that sits below sea level.
b. A populace conditioned to be dependant on Government is in jeopardy during a national disaster.
c. Government moves slowly.
d. George W Bush hates black people.

10) We invaded Iraq because;
a. George Bush wanted to get revenge for the attack on his father.
b. Oil for Bushes cronies.
c. No bid contracts for Cheney’s Halliburton
d. All of the above.

Answers:
1) D 2) D 3) D 4) D 5) C 6) A 7) D 8) D 9) D 10) D

Grades:
0-2: Still a hateful racist.
3-5: Showing hope but still lacking tolerance.
6-8: Moving toward enlightenment.
8-9: Close but room for personal growth.
All 10: You’ve made it, get some tiny glasses, a turtleneck sweater and begin to brood because the world is just so unfair.

I also listen to the various audio self-help tips listed on the left-hand side of his website at least once a day.

That cracked me up.

serious

Mar 13 2009, 10:53 PM

Do any of you find it a tiny bit ironic that your political system is about as democratic as that of ancient Sparta, in which whoever shouted the loudest was elected king?

Mickeys45

Mar 14 2009, 12:19 AM

I thought Sparta was an oligarchy.

Anyway, there is no Libertarian box and that's who I voted for, so I had to pick independent.

And Obama won because he ran a better campaign than McCain (a corpse could have), not because the country is now left-leaning. I live in a blue state and don't know a single person that considers themselves Liberal (and for that matter, I only know one Conservative).

SillySimon

Mar 14 2009, 03:16 AM

QUOTE(UncleMao @ Mar 12 2009, 11:57 PM)

I voted for mash potatoes instead of chips.

Mashed potatoes, ftw.

QUOTE(shirizaki @ Mar 13 2009, 09:01 AM)

I can use both hands. Though right handed is dependable and never fails, left is usually a different feeling since I don't use it as much.

This is ponderous, man... really ponderous.

QUOTE(nun @ Mar 13 2009, 10:03 AM)

80% right?

There's that liberal victimization at work. Although I may be corrected in that there exists a "silent majority", but I can tell you I often felt alone in the wilderness here. (At least until Simon came along

) It doesn't stop me one whit, though.

I rarely see the difference between Republican and Democrat these days...
And I'm not sure I always properly differentiate between "right" and "left"...
But I will always know the difference between "right" and "wrong".

QUOTE(shirizaki @ Mar 13 2009, 10:09 AM)

And the ideals of a party, which is made up of a ton of people with widespread beliefs, would be so generic it would be like saying "I like pudding" and making a nation, national anthem, and arming that nation's military with your favorite foodstuff as weaponry. I mean there's butterscotch, dark chocolate, vanilla, banana pudding, and others. Not to mention the pies that are made with pudding.

You can love pudding, but hate pies. You'd be a funny fucker, but you wouldn't be swallowing the entire pudding offerings made by the pudding party.

But that's OK. Seriously, you don't have to like the pies they offer. Some of them are fruity and suck.

I'm loving this post.

QUOTE(Dean @ Mar 13 2009, 01:11 PM)

QUOTE(sillysimon @ Mar 12 2009, 09:35 PM)

I checked the box for "Right - Republican", even though I can hardly be
considered a true Republican. I don't even agree with conservatives on
most social issues. But, as a businessman, I can't help but side with the
"right" on fiscal issues.

If you had voted anything other than Republican (and admitted it) you would have immediately killed this thread and rendered the poll completely pointless.

For the last time (okay... probably not.), I am NOT a Replublicrat!

QUOTE(nun @ Mar 13 2009, 06:19 PM)

QUOTE

Here is a short test to measure your transition from racist, hate filled, money obsessed, greedy conservative pig, to enlightened, happy, tolerant progressive. Be sure to write you answers down so you can calculate your progress in your personal transition.

Take it as many times as you like and measure your improvement. Remember, transition begins with first letting go, then embracing the new you.

Welcome to a Progressive World! Ta!

1) A
2) C
3) A
4) A
5) D
6) A
7) A
8) A
9) E... all of the above
10) E... none of the above

I guess I'm still a hateful racist.

@ Artemis:
It's hard to admit, but I actually agree with about 90% of that drivel you posted.
That's excepting the parts that were either redundant, immature, ignorant, redundant, or just plain whacko... of course.
Excuse me while I go kill myself now.

btw- were the lyrics really necessary???

Artemis Entreri

Mar 14 2009, 11:18 AM

QUOTE(serious @ Mar 13 2009, 10:53 PM)

Do any of you find it a tiny bit ironic that your political system is about as democratic as that of ancient Sparta, in which whoever shouted the loudest was elected king?

Except for Spartan kings were held accountable..

QUOTE

5. Milton makes a series of claims designed to argue for the notion that kings have been held accountable, even executed, before:

A "The kings of Sparta, though descended from Hercules, esteemed a God among hem, were often judged, and sometimes put to death by the most just and renowned laws of Lycurgus."

QUOTE(sillysimon @ Mar 14 2009, 03:16 AM)

I rarely see the difference between Republican and Democrat these days...
And I'm not sure I always properly differentiate between "right" and "left"...
But I will always know the difference between "right" and "wrong".

Ah, but what is "right" for you may not be the "right" solution to the problem.
And if certain things are "left" alone nothing will be made "right".
And "left" unchecked the past 8 years, the "right" has "left" 95% of the country behind.
Now, I'm not saying the "left" is looking out for the "right" interests,
But the "right" has simply had it "wrong" about having businesses and banks "left" unchecked.

QUOTE(sillysimon @ Mar 14 2009, 03:16 AM)

@ Artemis:
It's hard to admit, but I actually agree with about 90% of that drivel you posted.
That's excepting the parts that were either redundant, immature, ignorant, redundant, or just plain whacko... of course.
Excuse me while I go kill myself now.

btw- were the lyrics really necessary???

Yes the lyrics are needed. They describe my feelings towards what the Bush administration had done, and I'm sure some of you feel this way about what Obama is doing.

QUOTE

It is right to believe
In the need to be free
It's a time when you die
And without asking why
Can't you see what they do
They are grinding us down
They are taking our land
That belongs to the clans

Not alone with a dream
Just a want to be free
With a need to belong
I am a clansman...

Freedom [x4]

It's a time wrough with fear
It's a land wrough with change
Ancestors could hear
What is happening now
They would turn in their graves
They would all be ashamed
That the land of the free
Has been written in chains
…
No, no we can't let them take anymore
No we can't let them take anymore
We've the land of the free

Does anyone else care to post their views on any issues?

I'd seriously like to know how some of our more conservative members feel about things and why they are or aren't Republicans.

I've explained why I'm a Democrat -the lack of viable choices, and my disdain for the religious right, redundantly rich, covetous corporations, and the intrusive social conservatism ideals.

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Social conservatism is a political or moral ideology that believes the government has a role in encouraging or enforcing traditional values or behaviors based on the belief that these are what keep people civilized and decent.

This is what I hate more than even the rich. Government needs to let people know not to steal, murder, enslave, deprive of physical liberty, force relocation, rape, or collective persecute people. Also public indecency is a bad thing, but what you do in your home is your business.

The Bush administration stole our tax dollars to fight a unnecessary war (giving it to Halliburton), murdered many soldiers in this war let alone their covert assassinations, enslaved us all to the corporations by eliminating worker's rights, forced relocation through promoting "eminent domain" policies, collectively persecuted gays, and deprived many of physical liberty by putting them in Guantanamo Bay. This all collectively I would call the rape of the Constitution, therefore, the people of the United States.

Basically everything I consider to be a crime, the previous administration did (except for raping an actual person, but now that I think about it weren't there rape allegations at Abu Ghraib?) and people are actually out there still supporting what this man and his faithful followers did.

And I do understand that most of you are fiscal conservatives, but I keep telling you about the "Free Lunch" corporate America is getting, wasting the majority of out tax dollars, yet it seems like you don't care or are OK with that.

Victor_Vega

Mar 14 2009, 02:31 PM

This should go in Link Dump, however, I feel it is relative to this thread.

The Progressive Quiz

I got a 120, which surprise, surprise, labeled me as no only conservative, but very conservative. I don't like being called conservative though, because I feel that I am a true liberal in every since of the word.

Artemis Entreri

Mar 14 2009, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(Victor_Vega @ Mar 14 2009, 02:31 PM)

This should go in Link Dump, however, I feel it is relative to this thread.

The Progressive Quiz

I got a 120, which surprise, surprise, labeled me as no only conservative, but very conservative. I don't like being called conservative though, because I feel that I am a true liberal in every since of the word.

293 - Very progressive.

Ad Astra

Mar 14 2009, 07:05 PM

302 -- Extremely progressive.

Holy shit. I'm more progressive than Artemis?! Where's my tinfoil hat?

nun

Mar 14 2009, 07:44 PM

93 - Extremely Conservative

Michael

Mar 14 2009, 08:25 PM

271 - very progressive

This score is misleading, however. Many of the questions weren't easy to agree or disagree with.
"It depends exactly what you mean."
"It depends how it's implemented."
"It depends what other factors are involved."
etc...

I ended up answering the questions after making certain assumptions, but those assumptions weren't constant from question to question. They depended on the wording of each question and the limits of my imagination.

The Gunslinger

Mar 14 2009, 10:47 PM

255 - Very progressive.

Victor_Vega

Mar 15 2009, 12:13 AM

QUOTE(queltor @ Mar 14 2009, 08:25 PM)

271 - very progressive

This score is misleading, however. Many of the questions weren't easy to agree or disagree with.
"It depends exactly what you mean."
"It depends how it's implemented."
"It depends what other factors are involved."
etc...

I ended up answering the questions after making certain assumptions, but those assumptions weren't constant from question to question. They depended on the wording of each question and the limits of my imagination.

I found a lot of the same problems too.

bringthedoo

Mar 15 2009, 10:24 AM

149 - Very Conservative

Curiously there were very few individual rights questions. Either progressives don't care enough or it simply supports my theory that true progressives think government knows best in all matters and care not to think and choose for themselves.

Mickeys45

Mar 16 2009, 11:00 AM

150 - Conservative

I don't really have much faith in this quiz. Asking me about the poor, sick and elderly all at the same time is kind of...well...progressive. I wanted to say that the sick and elderly are a given but the poor is situational, but couldn't. A lot of the questions were like that.

Also, what's with this black and white shit? Are we in high school? There are more than two schools of thought out there.

The Gunslinger

Mar 16 2009, 11:34 AM

Oh dear god please don't tell me that Mickey doesn't consider himself a republican.

Mickeys45

Mar 16 2009, 12:00 PM

Speaking of high-school level thinking...

"He disagrees with the left so he must be right" and vice versa doesn't really hold much weight. I don't like the idea of labeling myself, but i often consider myself a Libertarian if asked (i'm registered Democrat).

Oh and I got a good chuckle out of the question about religion, something like "religion should be more about peace and tolerance and less about banning abortion and gay marriage". Or in other words, "we support freedom of thought as long as it doesn't conflict with our ideals".

The left is really funny!

shirizaki

Mar 16 2009, 12:47 PM

QUOTE(Mickeys45 @ Mar 16 2009, 12:00 PM)

150 - Conservative

I don't really have much faith in this quiz. Asking me about the poor, sick and elderly all at the same time is kind of...well...progressive. I wanted to say that the sick and elderly are a given but the poor is situational, but couldn't. A lot of the questions were like that.

Also, what's with this black and white shit? Are we in high school? There are more than two schools of thought out there.

THIS. IS AMERICA!

YOU WILL JOIN US OR THEM! IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH, JUST CHOOSE ONE!

bringthedoo

Mar 16 2009, 03:15 PM

The hell? I'm ONE POINT into the VERY conservative side? BAH.

Mickey! Fistpound...

Artemis Entreri

Mar 16 2009, 07:11 PM

Did any of you see you can vote on a scale of 1-10?

I voted according to how I felt, but then again I put up the way I feel on the issues.

Michael

Mar 16 2009, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Artemis Entreri @ Mar 16 2009, 08:11 PM)

Did any of you see you can vote on a scale of 1-10?

That only matters if you see the question as valid.

On a scale of 1 to 10, do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
"You stopped beating your wife."

Artemis Entreri

Mar 17 2009, 02:09 PM

QUOTE(queltor @ Mar 16 2009, 07:49 PM)

QUOTE(Artemis Entreri @ Mar 16 2009, 08:11 PM)

Did any of you see you can vote on a scale of 1-10?

That only matters if you see the question as valid.

On a scale of 1 to 10, do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
"You stopped beating your wife."

You're right, that is a trapped statement.

I didn't see anything like that on the quiz, though.

Either you feel strongly for or against, an issue or somewhere in between.

You always could elaborate more in this thread…

Michael

Mar 17 2009, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(Artemis Entreri @ Mar 17 2009, 03:09 PM)

You always could elaborate more in this thread…

1. "Talking with rogue nations such as Iran or with state-sponsored terrorist groups is naive and only gives them legitimacy."
Defining a country as "rogue" loads the question from the very beginning. Maybe that's the point. Maybe not. Either way, combining them with state-sponsored terrorist groups is just silly. State sponsored groups are bought and paid for by a government. Why should "we" talk directly to the group and not the sponsor? I'm inclined to disagree with part A, but agree with part B.

18. "Limited government is always better than big government."
Always? Always? I can't agree with that. Limited government is often better, but not always. And that's assuming my understanding of "big" and "limited" is the same as yours. My limited government is probably big to some people (anarchists, for example). So do I just give it a 5?

19. "Labor unions play a positive role in our economy."
Historically, yes. Labor unions improved the nation's economy. But look at the troubles with the American auto companies and the payouts they "owe" retired union members. Too much of a good thing probably. So how should I vote when I agree and disagree, depending on the context?

20. "Government programs for the poor undermine individual initiative and responsibility."
I agree and disagree, depending on which programs you're specifically talking about? I can't agree that college loans, grants, and job training undermine individual initiative and responsibility. Unlimited welfare programs that encourage teenage girls to get pregnant so they can contribute to the household expenses via welfare checks? Yes. Those undermine both (or encourage a negative sort of individual initiative).

Those are just a few examples of mine. I'm sure other people have issues with some of the other questions.