[Thalia]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7643175.stm

A row has broken out at the University of Manchester after its students' union toilets were "de-gendered".

Temporary signs have made the "ladies" simply "toilets", while the "gents" have become "toilets with urinals".

The changes are in response to an unspecified number of complaints from trans students who are uncomfortable using the men's toilets.

A university newspaper criticised the move but the student union said it was needed to tackle transphobia.

There are no figures on the number of transsexual and transgender students believed to be among the university's population of more than 35,000 students.

The students' union welfare office declined to reveal the number of complaints, but said it was an important issue.

Women's officer Jennie Killip told the BBC: "If you were born female, still present quite feminine, but define as a man you should be able to go into the men's toilets - if that's how you define.

"You don't necessarily have had to have gender reassignment surgery, but you could just define yourself as a man, feel very masculine in yourself, feel that in fact being a woman is not who you are."

Asked about the change, some female students questioned the move.

One said: "Girls might not want to use the same toilets as boys, so then you just end up with people complaining about that - so you can't really win.

Another told the BBC: "I personally wouldn't want to be in the same toilet as a man."

The move prompted an editorial in campus newspaper Student Direct last week which criticised the new arrangements.

Newspaper spokeswoman Susannah Birkwood said: "The toilets have been provided for men who don't self identify as men and women who don't think of themselves as women.

"Whether or not this is political correctness gone mad.. because it certainly seems that way to some members of our student community."

Union officials have rejected the criticism and permanent signs for its first gender neutral toilets are being made.

Almost 60 people, including Ms Killip, have signed a letter to the student newspaper criticising the editorial.

This won't make much difference to me as I'm not one of those girls who messes around in the toilets for ages and I don't mind men being in there as long as they don't make a mess on the floor!

As men, would you find it amusing to go into the toilets that are mostly used by girls just because you could, even if you identify as completely male? What is the attraction?
I think some women users will find this uncomfortable, I know some girls who don't even like other girls to hear them weeing and would be very embarassed by a man hearing them.

Also to bear in mind, in the Union building there are about 20 toilets in all. This is just ONE building out of the whole university, which acccording to my Campus Guide, has 92 buildings in all, many of which have toilets on nearly floor!

For those of us who don't care either way, I think it is a very effective means of making people aware that transgenderism does exist, even though these students are a tiny minority of those at the university.

You can also watch a video on the BBC, with our mental Welfare Officer Jennie, who just seems to want to please everyone!

This post has been edited by Thalia: Sep 30 2008, 04:33 PM

[KVL]

If i was standing at a urinal and a woman walked in, i would get a little annoyed.

Then again i have been at University dorms where the bathrooms were all unisex, so there are woman and men all walking around at the same time. Usually though they have to add more barriers between urinals if that will be the case for the case of modesty.

But my concern would be if that move to allow people who identify themselves as one gender or the other to choose which bathroom they will use could be seen as culturally offensive. I have know Muslim men who due to either religious or cultural reasons could not share a bathroom with a woman. This move could be seen as offensive to them as it may force them into using what is now a unisex toilet.

[Scud]

I think this is stupid. I'm sure most women don't want to use the same bathrooms as men. I know they don't want us to hear them whiz. If you look like a duck, you should use the duck room. That's my stance.

However that being said, if this is a necessary step towards female toplessness becoming as common and acceptable as male toplessness, I am all for it.

[Pitchit]

...There are no figures on the number of transsexual and transgender students believed to be among the university's population of more than 35,000 students...

I love this. A decision that adversely affects 99.9% of the population and helps .1%.

Hey, here's an idea for the 'trans' folks, TAKE YOUR SHITS AT HOME!

[Michael]

When I was attending U.C. Santa Cruz, and living in the dorms, the restrooms and showers were coed. Yes, young men and young women would hold conversations while showering in stalls next to one another. Yes, young men and young women would shave and brush their teeth at side-by-side sinks.

Big woop.

[Thalia]

The formerly men's toilets do have I think 3 or 4 cubicles as well as urinals. Josh will tell you better than I can!

It's interesting what you say about Muslims. The year before last when I was in Manchester, many of our Student Union Council Executive positions were won by Muslim students who ran on a block vote (ie like having a Muslim Party) and motivated other Muslims to vote for them in this way. This included the Editor of our student newspaper (which actually serves all three universities in the Manchester area), and it was very evident in the make-up of the paper after that, for example they got rid of the sex advice column and ran a lot of pro-Palestine editorials. It seems that in the last elections (when I was in France) things have swung back the other way...

...There are no figures on the number of transsexual and transgender students believed to be among the university's population of more than 35,000 students...

I love this. A decision that adversely affects 99.9% of the population and helps .1%.

Hey, here's an idea for the 'trans' folks, TAKE YOUR SHITS AT HOME!

Like I said, these toilets are very few and during the day there are many, many more available. I know that in my building, behind the Union, there are toilets on all 4 floors in all 4 wings of the building (it is a very odd shape), as well as the Library next to that and many more buildings surrounding it.
It's only at night, when the Union is the only place open, that this could get tricky.

This post has been edited by Thalia: Sep 30 2008, 04:44 PM

[Scud]

I don't think it would bother me to have a girl walk by when I'm at the urinal. Honestly I'm significantly more bothered by using a urinal next to a homosexual. Homophobic I know, but it still weirds me out.

[Joshwa]

The formerly men's toilets do have I think 3 or 4 cubicles as well as urinals. Josh will tell you better than I can!

It's interesting what you say about Muslims. The year before last when I was in Manchester, many of our Student Union Council Executive positions were won by Muslim students who ran on a block vote (ie like having a Muslim Party) and motivated other Muslims to vote for them in this way. This included the Editor of our student newspaper (which actually serves all three universities in the Manchester area), and it was very evident in the make-up of the paper after that, for example they got rid of the sex advice column and ran a lot of pro-Palestine editorials. It seems that in the last elections (when I was in France) things have swung back the other way...

Yeah, i only used to read that paper for the funny sex stories, and after a while ever page was just filled with people going "WAAAAAH PALESTINE WAAAAAAAH JEWS ARE BAD WAAAAAH".

As for the toilets, i am so going into the ladies and fapping in one of the cubicles.

[UncleMao]

Somebody's gonna get raped and things will go back to normal.

[Michael]

Somebody's gonna get raped and things will go back to normal.

Because rape always makes things go back to normal.

Just ask the people who've experienced it.

[KVL]

The formerly men's toilets do have I think 3 or 4 cubicles as well as urinals. Josh will tell you better than I can!

It's interesting what you say about Muslims. The year before last when I was in Manchester, many of our Student Union Council Executive positions were won by Muslim students who ran on a block vote (ie like having a Muslim Party) and motivated other Muslims to vote for them in this way. This included the Editor of our student newspaper (which actually serves all three universities in the Manchester area), and it was very evident in the make-up of the paper after that, for example they got rid of the sex advice column and ran a lot of pro-Palestine editorials. It seems that in the last elections (when I was in France) things have swung back the other way...

Yeah, i only used to read that paper for the funny sex stories, and after a while ever page was just filled with people going "WAAAAAH PALESTINE WAAAAAAAH JEWS ARE BAD WAAAAAH".

As for the toilets, i am so going into the ladies and fapping in one of the cubicles.

If you feel a really smelly crap coming along, head to the ladies room. If any girls get mad at you just say "when i am pushing out a turd that big, i feel like a woman giving birth. Wanna see my baby?"

[PENIS]

I have freely urinated in front of thousands of people at football games while cars passed on the highway. Fly Eagles Fly!


Just wanted to add that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[JustSumDude]

All the world is my degendered toilet. You turds should be fucking grateful that I don't flush.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

This post has been edited by JustSumDude: Sep 30 2008, 11:47 PM

[doppletwo]

I have seen women use the men's plenty of times when the lines are too long for the women's.



I try it one time and the cops get called.

[Lupuss]

I love this. A decision that adversely affects 99.9% of the population and helps .1%.

Hey, here's an idea for the 'trans' folks, TAKE YOUR SHITS AT HOME!

What he said. If you're a trans you've got way more important problems than the name of the toilets you use.

[Lupuss]

When I was attending U.C. Santa Cruz, and living in the dorms, the restrooms and showers were coed. Yes, young men and young women would hold conversations while showering in stalls next to one another. Yes, young men and young women would shave and brush their teeth at side-by-side sinks.

Big woop.

Did it encourage fornication?

[Father Ted]

In Europe generally, certainly here in Oslo, (not so much in the UK though), a sign on a door for male or female toilets is merely a guideline.
Especially in a bar or nightclub.

Nobody is remotely concerned what toilet is used.
A toilet is a toilet.

But then we don't have a poker up our arse when it comes to photos of tits and naked women being published in national papers............. and the word 'fuck' being said on national TV without it being bleeped out.

[Michael]

When I was attending U.C. Santa Cruz, and living in the dorms, the restrooms and showers were coed. Yes, young men and young women would hold conversations while showering in stalls next to one another. Yes, young men and young women would shave and brush their teeth at side-by-side sinks.

Big woop.

Did it encourage fornication?

Does it turn you on to learn which women (or men) routinely clog a toilet?

Imagine your general stereotypes of waking up next to someone and saying, "WTF! That's not what they looked like last night." It was like that, but without the sex. You saw everyone without their makeup, hair done, etc.

[Kharkov]

I have seen women use the men's plenty of times when the lines are too long for the women's.

I try it one time and the cops get called.

Did they go standing up?

For that matter, what is the etiquette if a guy uses a girl's toilet? Are we required to sit? Do we have to talk to the person in the cubicle next door? Do we have to discuss guys? Is it fasten-zip or zip-fasten?

Enough questions, I'm going to the nearest girl's bog to find the answers!